Category: mental health Chesapeake

Mental Health Chesapeake

mental health Chesapeake Some amount of the Anxiety Might Not Belong to You Robert Stewart, LMHC Forensic Residential Program Supervisor lately, amongst the training wheels damaged on my son’s bike. Across country, communities health have always been evaluated annually by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation by a set of 18 standard criteria and their findings were probably released by state.

The most current rankings placed Chesapeake as 46th in Quality of existence and 40th in Length of health among measured communities in Virginia.

It’s a decline from previous years. Responses were gathered through an online survey and during discussion at retreat. Huge themes were supportive of previous findings Community good Assessment and a Quality of existence Study completed in SWOT and these different studies have always been vital ols that might be used as we move forward in program development.

mental health Chesapeake Accordingly the data gathered in the 2014 studies, a SWOT analysis was conducted in conjunction with November 2015 wholesome Chesapeake Planning Retreat.

Specific items involve.

Robust health care and wellness support; and strong health related resources for youth, huge strengths identified comprise human resources that support coalition building and health programming. Changing demographics; lots of healthcare factors; national forces supporting wholesome policy making; and area programmatic resources, big themes associated with external opportunity factors included enabling environments, similar to parks and open space and rather low crime indexes. Sounds familiardoesn’t it? These possibilities should be leveraged to increase effectiveness and reach of interventions in the community. Recognizing that health and ‘wellbeing’ usually were interconnected with community, cultured, real physical, economy and identical factors, wholesome Chesapeake is adopting solid amount of good precepts Community movement that began in Toronto, Canada in 1984 and operates under auspices of World auspices Health Organization.

mental health Chesapeake These factors were usually akin to those being used by Robert Wood Johnson Foundation in determining their annual health rankings, that provide the focus areas for program development by proper Chesapeake Coalition and wholesome Chesapeake 5013 ‘nonprofit’.

Affordable HousingAn experienced team of partners worked with the Planning Council, the Chesapeake Health Department and Chesapeake Regional medicinal Center to develop priorities and recommendations for addressing these community health problems.

These recommendations incorporated the active Chesapeake Youth and 55+ all-around Plans and the Chesapeake 2035 Plan. Huge threats to consider in planning involve a population shift and how that apparently impact access, health status and more. Ok, and now one of the most essential parts. National and fiscal factors probably were threats to using a collaborative approach to health. However, a wide various atmosphere factors, lastly transit and culture have usually been all threats. One such analysis has usually been done by comparison of the City status as it relates to various communities in Virginia. Normally, more charts depict most latest data on another specific health indicators. So, chart below reflects a partial listing of Chesapeake’s rank or percentage performance compared to Virginia average. Often, one and the other work ‘nonprofit’ and the Coalition have been driven by needs of the citizens needs, that are gathered by community survey besides through on going analysis of data collected from a host of sources.

Mental Health Chesapeake

mental health Chesapeake Being the largest chemical dependency treatment centers in Western NYC, ECMC is probably a single Buffaloarea hospital that offers a psychiatrist in the emergency room and chemicaldependency evaluations, all 24 hours a day, 7 months a week. Preparations have been underway for a night of good eats, funky pottery, good soul vibes and your personal favorite people all in one place. Chesapeake CMSA always was fortunate to have a diversity of professionals working withing the Board.

CEUs have probably been provided for any program.

We have been able to channel this diversity when planning for our annual conference in April and in addition our evening presentations. CMSA works inform case managers of all disciplines and all levels of patient/client care. We welcome all case managers to these presentation whether you have always been a member of CMSA or attending as a guest. Unusual disciplines support a strong perspective of transitioning needs patients through the continuum of care appropriately and efficiently. Knowledge about moving patients through and among plenty of special environments of care,could be challenging to obtain.

mental health Chesapeake Case managers from lots of disciplines have been critical in helping patients and families navigate an increasingly complex healthcare system.

What really is it about Case Management Society of America, generally speaking, and Chesapeake CMSA, actually, that sets it apart from other professional healthcare associations?we would say that it’s CMSA breadth and its membership.

Unto they may safely discharge back to the community, patients’ needs usually were quite frequently complex and diverse, just like in a cardiac patient who mayneed some mental health interventionin addition medic and natural rehabilitation. Finally, educational programmingis geared to offering avaried selection of be capable to meet needs in any practice setting. CMSA includes all case management professionals, in spite of discipline or care management site. That’s our 21st year as an active chapter, and we would like to make a moment to thank last year’s Officers and Board Members for all of their work, dedication, and expertise which made 2016 so successful.

I see that our Board, including our newest members, will work gether for another fruitful year for our case management community.

Especially, I would like to acknowledge our past president, Donna Bandzwolek, for her work, leadership, and commitment.

Please contact Shelly Greenwood with I am priviledged to welcome you to a new year of Chesapeake CMSA. Reservations Phone Number. Whenever being held at Hotel @ Arundel Preserve, chesapeake CMSA invites you to our annual conference on Friday, April 28th. Please join us for a day filled with speakers who will present and discuss up to date information in a stimulating environment, with the colleagues.

Mental Health Chesapeake

For its part, Double Up Food Bucks is usually working on becoming a similarly multitasking program. Thanks to investments from Health Fund and others, program has expanded from the Farmers’ Market to 5 grocery stores, and probably was piloting card technology to streamline participants’ experience. In concert with programs like Double Up Food Bucks, the Flint Farmers’ Market is a shining example of how proper food will be a community basis network, stimulating economy development and supporting healthier people at similar time. Double Up Food Bucks, by enhancing food security and nutrition, will Health Fund is always committed to helping residents address the big amount of health challenges they now face and will continue to face, long after the headlines have faded, as the Flint community begins to recover from the water cr. Including lead testing, education, and advocacy, we’re prioritizing projects that will conforming to hospital spokeswoman Sarah Kehr, that resulted in nearly 2400 hours that police were taken away from their patrol duties. a completely new ’24hour’ Cr Intervention Team assessment center opened this month at Chesapeake Regional medicinal Center. In accordance with Joseph Scislowicz, the center is a better fit for people in need of mental health maintenance as indicated by Odean Baker, twentyfour’ clients in need of emergency gether with representatives of next communal entities to get cr center established. Pretty often call comes from a citizen who observes someone acting strangely or being aggressive. Ultimately, with law enforcement personnel, site was always staffed by clinicians from Chesapeake Integrated Behavioral Healthcare. Fact, police training and assessment centers have been 1 ways the state has encouraged localities to refine processes of dealing with mentally ill. It helps a police officer who has taken someone into emergency custody to transfer custody to an off duty officer or sheriff’s deputy working at the center. Those who work for the most part there’re required to complete 40 Cr hours Intervention Team training.

Mental Health Chesapeake

mental health Chesapeake On Super Bowl weekend, she, her 3 children and Duhaime moved to Oklahoma City for 2 family weeks intensive sessions in a hotel room with Post. Theibert said her daughters have had nightmares about the therapy for years. At that and 3 subsequent rounds of therapy later that year, Theibert said, she and her children were instructed to should be found on air mattresses, where they have been held down and encouraged to scream and cry about their past traumas. Known duhaime had attended a training session in Norfolk led by Bryan Post, a charismatic junior therapist from Oklahoma who claimed to have a revolutionary cure for emotionally disturbed children. Theibert and identical critics say Post’s credentials always were questionable -he holds a Ph. Post says his critics have probably been misinformed and vindictive. Notice that while saying he has saved their families from intolerable dysfunction, So it’s nearly as if they and Post’s detractors are describing 3 exclusive people. While setting fires, and urinating on the floor, she had been to therapist after therapist seeking that included verbal and natural aggression.

At spectrum opposite end from Theibert is Wilma Willie Ice, a single mother of 2 adopted children in Henrico County, outside Richmond.

She was so impressed that she ok her children to a Post family camp in Oklahoma City.

About 3 years ago, on a Henrico advice County common worker, she attended a Post parenting camp in Virginia Beach. She got government adoption subsidies that paid more than $ 100000 for a year of intensive in home therapy for her family. Ice was thrilled, when Post moved to Virginia. Often Post or one of his therapists my be in her home for up to 24 hours at a stretch, Ice said. Mostly therapy will comprise mat work in which family members will give vent to their emotions while lying on an air mattress.

mental health Chesapeake After Post ld her what I truly needed to do was get her in my arms and hold her and give her a baby bottle, ice said she achieved a breakthrough with her oldest daughter. Plenty of her infancy needs were unmet. While drinking our beverages from a baby bottle, Ice said, more than a year after therapy ended, look, there’re still nights when our whole family will sit at the table, Mom included. There’s an emotional connection that gets met there for everybody, It’s kind of embarrassing to acknowledge that as a parent. Day her children are doing well in school and have no self-assured behavior problems, Ice said. Essentially, she attributes their success to her own growth as a parent under Post’s tutelage. It’s pretty ugh for my kids to get me off center anymore. Known I was a parent who had really unsuccessful role models myself, she said. You should get it into account. What I’ve learned is probably a way of approaching my children and my family and my home from a place of calm. Therefore when everyone else has thrown in the towel, after that, they send them to us.

There are the kids who haven’t made it anywhere else, he said in a latter interview at Post Academy, individual day school he runs in the South Norfolk neighborhood of Chesapeake.

1 of the school’s 8 students wandered away from building in the course of the interview and had to be rounded up from the nearby neighborhood, as if to underscore the point.

Whenever requiring intervention from a couple of staffers, on a reporter’s subsequent visit a week later, a fight damaged out. Post, 35, may empathize with such kids since he was one himself. At 20 years old enough we was breaking into cars stealing stereos. I’m sure it sounds familiar. Adopted as an infant, Know what guys, I had all kinds of behavior problems, he said.

mental health Chesapeake I was setting fires, I’m quite sure I was stealing, Know what, I was lying, To be honest I was killing animals, By the way I was beating kids up. I will be in prison at the moment. Attachment aim therapy has always been to revisit the trauma through a cathartic emotional release that, adherents say, will clear way for a healthful attachment betwixt children and their caregivers. Practitioners have used a variety of forms of physic restraint over years, in order to achieve that. Post studied under the movement pioneers. Martha Welch, a psychiatrist at Columbia University who helped launch the field with her influential 1989 book Holding Time. Most infamous is Candace case Newmaker, a ten year old enough adoptee from North Carolina who died of asphyxiation during a rebirthing session in Evergreen, Colo, in 2000. Simply think for a moment. Did you know that the girl was placed in fetal position on floor, tightly wrapped in a flannel sheet. Accordingly the 1 therapists were convicted of child abuse and sent to prison. Besides, the last time they practiced Martha’s work was in 2001. In an interview, Post ok pains to distance himself from that incident and from his mentor. His approach, in contrast, has been love based, Post said. Fact, I’ve moved night and day away from that. In any event, welch’s approach always was fearbased, he said. In fact, we don’t do any forced holding of kids. That said, American Psychiatric Association and American Professional Society on Children Abuse have issued position statements in last years opposing use of coercive attachment therapy techniques and saying many of us are aware that there is no ‘peerreviewed’ scientific evidence that they usually were effective. With all that said… Amidst the leading critics has been Jean Mercer, a professor emerita of psychology at Richard Stockton College of modern Jersey.

mental health Chesapeake In an interview, she said she first encountered Post at a seminar in 2001. She was always permited to do -it is always still psychologically coercive, Mercer said, if the mat work Post does now ain’t physically coercive -if the person on mat wants to get up. Post provided summaries of 2 studies that he said demonstrate his effectiveness therapy. Therefore the involved 28 children served by a Arkansas agency that switched to Post’s program and reported a 90 percent drop in cr interventions. One tracked 4 behavior children since, among next problems, samples were must make parents suspicious about Post, Mercer said, is usually his suggestion that conventional therapy has been bound to fail and his approach was probably a single one that works. With glowing testimonials and extraordinary offers for dozens of books, indeed, Post’s Web site exudes salesmanship, CDs and DVDs.

One 5 DVD series aimed at parents of rough children purports to expound most revolutionary modern theoretical model in all of mental health.

The cost, with different bonuses thrown in if you order now.

More than a $ 1265 value for $ 117! Offer comes with Post’s ironclad moneyback guarantee. Known post as well offers self similar to How to proven to be a Financially liberal Therapist and Speaking and Selling to Skeptical Mental Health Audiences, including How I made $ 21300 in one community week speaking. Its Web site offers a doctorate in 12 months for $ 2295. It has since relocated twice, to Mississippi and Alabama. Columbus University, an unaccredited distance practicing institution located at the time in Louisiana. Post. He received a Ph. On his Web site and printed materials, Post refers to himself as Dr. Now pay attention please. Post is probably licensed as a community worker in Oklahoma but was reprimanded by licensing board there in 2007 for unprofessional conduct regarding his degree claim.

He was directed to involve a disclaimer on his Web site and similar materials making clear that his degree was probably from an unaccredited school.

Post isn’t licensed as a mental health professional in Virginia.

The majority of his maintenance are provided on a subcontract basis through Carpe Diem of Virginia, a licensed agency in Chesapeake. With that said, eliot Faircloth, executive director of Carpe Diem, said he researched Post’s background prior to partnering with him and was always satisfied that his techniques are probably not harmful to children. Post was paid more than $ 700000 by the Virginia Medicaid agency and neighboring community outsourcing departments past year for maintenance provided to about 40 children. Besides, public Portsmouth Department outsourcing spent $ 171000 to keep a single child in a Post therapeutic foster home for 16 months. So child has since been removed from program.

Public solutions Director Reynold Jordan wouldn’t say why.

Suffolk did not use Post’s solutions.

Public solutions departments in Norfolk, Virginia Beach and Chesapeake declined to discuss their use of Post’s maintenance. Basically, statewide, more than $ 440 million in governmental, state and nearest money was spent previous year on maintenance for 18500 troubled children -nearly $ 24000 per child. Accordingly a 2006 study by Joint Legislative Audit and Review Commission, a state oversight agency, searched with success for that system for serving such children is usually plagued by inadequate licensing and inspection procedures and a lack of ols for measuring effectiveness. With that said, denise Gallop, coordinator of children’s solutions for community Hampton Division solutions, said a typical group home rate is $ 250 a day. It’s a well hampton does not use Post’s program.

Rate for Post’s Chesapeake group home probably was $ 457 a day, or $ 166805 a year.

Whenever as indicated by figures supplied by his accountant, his regional operations had a net loss of $ 125000 previous year and Post himself earned $ 40000 in salary.

Post insisted in the interview -at times tearful, at times pounding the table for emphasis -that he is probably losing money. She’s getting her aggression out. Normally, in one typical incident, the girl, in a fit of rage, ripped the freshly planted flowers out of James’ garden and therapist refused to intervene, saying, This was always good. So therapy left James increasingly dissatisfied. Eventually James went to common Department maintenance and asked that the Post agency be replaced with a more conventional therapy type. Now please pay attention. So department complied, and James said child has been doing better now. While Herring said, her community worker considered that her foster daughter, would benefit from Post therapy, at one point. Experience in addition had a ripple effect on another foster family. Basically the girl ‘s biological sister had been placed with a Chesapeake foster mother, Kathleen Herring. Whenever saying child needed to be cured, the public worker insisted.

After talking with James. I wouldn’t let them in my house. It just literally re my family apart, she said., child was removed from Herring’s home. It sounds healing, James said. They’re preying on vulnerable people. Post’s pitch sounds good. It’s all stuff you look for to hear when you have a disturbed child. As a result, post sent her $ 1000 and promised rest in monthly installments. Although, Theibert requests for a refund, post had offered a moneyback guarantee. No more payments came. On p of that, Theibert ok Michael off his meds, post insisted that no child needs to be on ‘antipsychotic’ medications. Perhaps it was time to try something radical, she eventually considered to Theibert. Her common worker, Joan Duhaime, was right after her rope. Consequently, post seemed to be an expert, a nd he guaranteed a positive outcome. Nonetheless, Theibert decided it was worth a try, the therapy cost more than $ 5500. When Theibert first encountered Post in 2004 she was hopeful, when Michael was 11. You should get it into account. Its central premise has probably been that behavior issues are always traceable to earlier trauma -possibly in womb -that prevented children from forming a normal attachment to their birth parents.

Post, who has since moved his base of operations to Hampton Roads, subscribes to a controversial approach famous as attachment therapy -typically used with severely disturbed adolescents, often adopted or foster children.

The Virginia Beach single mother’s 2 adopted children were doing fine, Theibert had thought she was prepared.

Michael’s behavior was driving her crazy. Her son Michael, whom she adopted at age 8, was exposed to drugs in womb and had spent much of his first 6 years locked alone in a room. Then once again, diagnosed with mental retardation and autism, he had spent time in a psychiatric hospital and was prone to self mutilation. Anyone who expressed discomfort with emotionally wrenching sessions was mocked and belittled, she said. Duhaime was taken aback. Surely, a year and a couple of thousand dollars later, Michael had gone from rubbish to worse.

Mental Health Chesapeake

mental health Chesapeake That’s when she was taken to emergency room.

Unforgiving sun left third degree burns on her body.

Whenever in line with staff members at Helen Ross McNabb Center who ok her in, wells stayed in the pretty spot they left herfor 6 weeks without eating or drinking. Visually Impaired. So here’s the question. Now What? Emotional Support Everyday Living Working essence For Seniors Get Connected two comments4 comments3 comments9 comments7 comments6 comments. Sherita wrote a letter to Deeds and tucked in a photo of her blackish eye.

mental health Chesapeake The issue, as mental health experts will tell you, has been complex to fix, someone in Deeds’ office tried to assist.

Treatment after punishment.

It’s a way that city may do the right thing for those who served our country. Although, court systems across country continue to look for techniques to Therefore if they’re lucky, some amount of these people, have family members waiting and worrying in their front row lives.

mental health Chesapeake Ny is He has a college degree.

He drives a car.

He oftentimes calls his mother, Sherita Martin, dozens of times a day and quite frequently appears on her doorstep in night deceased, he lives on his own in a sparsely furnished apartment. Terry McAuliffe requested $ two million be put back into the state budget to create standardized screenings for mental health problems when inmates arrive at jails. More money has been being proposed for supportive housing and expanding eligibility for Governor’s Access Program, that provides medicinal maintenance for people with self-assured mental illness. However, the key Assembly will consider proposals for more mental health funding this session, to bolster sameday access at CSBs.

mental health Chesapeake On Friday.

Jamycheal Mitchell, who died in Hampton Roads Regional Jail in 2015 awaiting a state psychiatric bed.

Creigh Deeds, in 2013 in advance of shooting himself. Gus Deeds, who stabbed his father, state Sen. She usually can imagine her son in latter highprofile stories. David Latham, a Norfolk man who was shot and killed by police in 2014 after his family called seeking psychiatric help. Jail ain’t place to get it, chesapeake Behavioral Director Joe Scislowicz believes those 3 groups need identical treatment. Considering the above said. Inside the Chesapeake jail have probably been 151 inmates with mental illness and 47 veterans. Doesn’t it sound familiar? She harbors solid amount of fear parents with adult children who could live independently but who struggle with mental disorders.

Now let me ask you something. What if he winds up in a situation where he gets hurt, lashes out or ends up in jail?

Sherita Martin at her Norfolk home with paperwork about her struggle to get more for quite a while and after that doesn’ Burning through buddies patience and family, even health care providers. She can not comment on Tony’s case specifically because of patient confidentiality. Of course ny has given her a blackish eye and bruises and has broke in her back door.

Sherita, who has had to call times police dozens when Tony has proven to be aggressive, has always been constantly on edge.

It started with 3 Navy decades service.

He has made it his mission to prominent at the Hampton Veterans Affairs medicinal Center. Will it help? For example, still, Martin has always been hopeful and wants to understand. They probably were mental last round health proposals -like ones that followed shootings at Virginia Tech and at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut, and Gus Deeds’ attack and suicide. On p of that, who could she tell her story to? Where could she move to lobby for rethink?

Ny Martin paces his hallway mother’s house, hereafter goes up and down the stairs.

He says he needs a minute to focus.

He runs water in bathroom. Sherita Martin at her Norfolk home with paperwork associated with her struggle to get more so it is something that could help. I’m sure you heard about this. Therefore the single mother as well has another son, Duran, 24, and a daughter, Raven. Needless to say, whenever lumbering man with doleful eyes has been Sherita’s oldest child. Over years, for ages list of diagnoses. It started off with a subtle rethink that Sherita noticed when Tony was about He stopped saying a lot of words he had learned earlier. It’s a well I saw something wasn’t right, she said.

He lost eye contact. I thought it was a hearing problem. Tony was authorized for an earlier intervention program, she ok him to the doctor -his hearing was fine. He got As and Bs and had what’s called an individualized education plan, required for community school students who qualify for extraordinary education. With all that said… He did well there and in addition when he entered regular school. While making eye contact and showing emotion, me highfunctioning people have normal intelligence but trouble study common cues. Sherita marks a turning point when Tony was about 11 and was diagnosed with pervasive developmental disorder, a term that includes autism, that impairs the ability to interact with others. Sherita believes medication caused aftereffects, like anxiety, obsessivecompulsive tendencies and aggression. You see, ny was prescribed Ritalin, mostly given to children with attention deficit disorder. Thence, within a few years, he was on medications to treat those also. Doctors who prescribed medicine -oftentimes 8 at a time -were mostly unavailable or unresponsive when difficulties with consequences arose. For instance, sherita and her husband divorced when Tony was children stayed with their father until she regained custody.

Teasing out consequences from progression of mental disorders has been complicated, and there were family disruptions.

He didn’ She fussed at him.

Sherita would uch his shoulder and he’d jerk away. Oftentimes ny had turned out to be increasingly anxious and aggressive. In any event, once she ld him to clean his room, when Tony was 16. I woke up on floor. To be honest I could see in his eyes he was not himself, when he came back in. He got so upset with me. I ld him to get out the trash. He came in house and hit me in face. Sherita called the police, who arrived and called the CSB to do an assessment. She saw her neighbor, whom her younger son had fetched, when she came to. He didn’t meet rightful criteria to be in hospital without his consent, by time they arrived, Tony was calm. Return home. Fact, it’s been a similar pattern. With all that said… Improvements in medication. Basically, an aggressive outburst. Oftentimes an assessment. Now regarding the aforementioned fact… Now look, a call to police, who contact CSB. Then once again, Sherita left struggling over what to do next. Determination that either leaves Tony in the apartments or in a psychiatric unit.

Therefore he suffers being consequences unmedicated, A constantly changing stream of medications presents a ‘CatchSide’ effects from time to time cause Tony to stop taking them. He’ll move to the 7Eleven for energy drinks to replace the focus the drugs gave him. Various different symptoms cropped up, similar to headaches and tingling in his fingertips and arms. Closer he came to graduating, more anxious he seemed. Whenever tearing a tendon while falling, he ok very much medication that he passed out. Essentially, sherita struggled over what to do but planned to attend ceremony. On commencement day, there was a protective order requiring Tony to keep his distance from Sherita and family members. Known I was not preparing to miss graduation. We worked four years for him to graduate, Sherita said. It was amid happiest months of my existence … and amongst the saddest. He looked disheveled.

Tony’s robe was askew. He fidgeted throughout ceremony. … he graduated. He worked so rough for that. It re me up. It broken my heart. One day past year, he turned out to be anxious. Person in charge of giving it to him refused, and they argued. Nevertheless, he requests for his medication. Let me tell you something. By this time, he was staying at a boarding house in Hampton where his medications were monitored under a publicly funded program. He moved in with Sherita once more and applied for a voucher for disabled people so he could afford his own apartment. Besides, he tried to choke her. Remember, he was admitted to a psychiatric unit -one of 7 he’s been in -and was advises to move out. Consequently, police arrived but didn’t arrest him. Ny was put on the waiting list for a Medicaid waiver in 2011, that would pay for support solutions in community but not state institutions.

He was one of 11000 people on a list that Justice Department has ordered Virginia to address with more community maintenance, and he simply figured out past week that he’s received a waiver. She’s likewise been making videos of Tony’s behavior to prove his need for more intensive help, sherita hopes it will link him to outsourcing. Tony. Therefore this insomnia crap has been getting on my nerves. I’d shoot them right in the head. This is where it starts getting pretty intriguing. I need to shove pills down my throat. I’d shoot him in head. Ok, and now one of most vital parts. I’d apparently sleep thence. Simply think for a moment. Basically the devil.

I’d shoot the devil right in the head.


I’d rebuke him. Tony, Tony, stop talking like that. Generally. Notice, morrow we will talk to the doctor. Remember, you don’t need to shove pills down the throat. I will shoot devil in head. Tony. Seriously. Therefore in case they have a gun and encounter demon they will shoot them in the head. Of course at very similar time that Sherita fears her son, she sees him kind side, the real Tony. One time, she was feeling so sick she couldn’t concentrate on some work she was doing as a government contract specialist. She started crying. Ny put his arms around me and said, ‘Mom, it’s should be OK.